Tim Lewis: So these introductions had to get short, because well you kind of know the score if listened to the last couple of episodes. I’m talking to the same people about their self-publishing journeys. So here we meet Ben Roberts again, and find out where he’s got to. So now over to the interview. Hello, Ben. Welcome back to the show.
Ben Roberts: Hi Tim, thank you so much for having me back on.
Tim Lewis: Okay. So I can’t remember how long ago it was that I had you on, about four to six weeks ago, something like that.
Ben Roberts: Yes.
Tim Lewis: But my understanding is that you now finished your first … well your manuscript and it’s off with an editor, is that correct?
Ben Roberts: That is correct, yes. That was … I slayed the beast, and then the beast was, no. The beast is only going to get harder I’m sure. It was a really nice feeling actually. So I managed to get the manuscript in, I think I’ve already looked back and gone, “Shoot, I could’ve improved that and that.” I think that’s something that’s going to be fun to deal with, like looking back and going, “Oh, I should’ve done that, I should’ve done that.” Or, “That thing doesn’t look very good,” or, “That bit doesn’t actually read right.”
Ben Roberts: ‘Cause stupidly I’ve looked back through, I haven’t had feedback from the editor yet. So I’ve had to try and keep myself away. But it was a huge feeling of relief actually to get that off, ’cause it’s like one of the first major milestones. Because when you do the planning, yes I wrote out each chapter as a little win. Each section was a win. Getting the plan, actually starting to write was a little win.
Ben Roberts: But actually having as much of it, 80% of probably what’s going to go to print ultimately done, or 70% to 80% already done, it feels like actually, that’s your first proper milestone. That you’re actually properly on your way now to getting it done.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. I mean, I think the advantage of a plan is just that it gives your book structure. So you don’t necessarily need a plan if your book has got a natural structure, like my social media networking book, because it had 20 stories in it, that was a structure anyway. I think with your book, ’cause you have kind of these buzzwords as a separate category, that gives you a structure over and above needing a detailed plan as such.
Tim Lewis: Can I ask you a few questions about your manuscript, and also the editing process, that I want to go through?
Ben Roberts: Yeah, sure.
Tim Lewis: How roughly long is your manuscript?
Ben Roberts: So I’ve submitted 30,000 words. But I’ve still got a few more case … that doesn’t include any cases studies. So I’ve also got case studies to put in there, so we’re probably going to looking at with all the revisions down, probably 35K.
Tim Lewis: Okay. And as far as as the editor you’ve hired, or found to do this job, what kind of brief have you given them? Are they going to be giving you advice about how the book should be structured, or are you looking for bits where they’re saying, “This doesn’t read right, maybe rewrite this?” Or are you looking for more error correction as well? What sort of brief have you given the editor, or the editor has told your they’re going to give you?
Ben Roberts: Yeah. So first off I started thinking about copy editing. So I spoke to a couple of people who were copywriters and asking how much they would charge, what sort of stuff they would do. So I spoke to a couple of people, some I just couldn’t afford. Others I liked what they did but they weren’t sort of specialising in the type of book I was writing. So I really wanted someone who had at least done business books, or done them regularly. ‘Cause for me it’s important to have someone who understand a bit of the context. So I went on the Society of Copy Editors and Proofreaders.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, Society for Editors and Proofreaders.
Ben Roberts: That’s it. So I find a load of people there, and I sort of whittled them down. I found this one woman who had actually copy edited a book that I actually had read myself, and I liked. So I was like, “Ooh.” That was a natural affinity, so I just basically dropped her a message saying, “Are you available? What would you do?” And so she’d look at the structure, the wording, the flow, making sure that all the references are correct. Obviously I referenced back to different sections and chapters as I go through and forward.
Ben Roberts: So it’s trying to make sure that flow is correct. Yeah, there’s some spelling stuff, but I actually plan on getting a proofreader as well. So after the next draught is done, I plan to go through two rounds of proofreading potentially. Yeah, so she’s going to look at the structure, some basics, a lot of grammar stuff, seeing the flow. Making sure that there are bits of missing things, she feels that things need to be bulked out more, or trimmed down. ‘Cause I guess when you write a shed load of content, it starts in your head sounding similar, and it’s trying to understand actually, does it sound similar for somebody who’s never read the book before?
Ben Roberts: If they’re going to read it like that, am I starting to repeat myself? Or could I move one of those down, or could I expand on other areas that I haven’t actually gone into any depth. So that’s the sort of thing that, when I was chatting with her, that she’s hopefully going to look at, and that’s hopefully the feedback that I’m going to get from it.
Tim Lewis: Okay. Have you got any idea when you’re going to receive your first set of edit results back?
Ben Roberts: Yes. It should be potentially tomorrow, or Thursday. Yes. So she said it would take just over a week, she says. So yeah, submitted it last week. I think it was maybe Wednesday or Thursday last week. So hopefully it should be at the earliest tomorrow, potentially into Thursday. So yeah, it’s going to be a bit crazy, yeah. I’ve had a nice week of not doing anything with my book though, which is kind of nice, ’cause in work I had to write a blog post I think the day after the manuscript, and I was banging my head against the table. Now I feel good, now I feel I can write again. It was quite tough, ’cause I was trying to write a lot of words, in actually not a very long space of time, especially when I have to balance up … So one of the things we talked about in the last episode is trying to balance up everything, trying to find the right time to write.
Ben Roberts: Because I do loads of other things, so obviously I’ve got a full time job which obviously I’m going to be writing in. I’m chairman of a hockey club, and I go out and play sport a lot. So I have to try and balance up. I’ve got my partner as well to spend time with her as well, not completely neglect her. As we talked about just before the start of this podcast, I’ve got a needy cat as well that demands attention. So trying to balance up all the stuff has actually been really tough, and it’s been a lot of long knit nights and lack of sleep.
Ben Roberts: But I think it’s all going to worth it, that’s the dream. I keep telling myself it’s going to be worth it. So I’m sure dreams will come true.
Tim Lewis: Are you sure this isn’t just a waking dream, because you’ve had a lack of sleep?
Ben Roberts: I know, honestly. It was great, the day before I submitted the manuscript I stayed up ’til three o’clock, no, two o’clock in the morning. I went to bed for three hours, I’ve got up again, did a quick read through of different sections I was most unhappy with, did some edits, and I got it to the copy editor at six in the morning.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, there is a point with books where you’re just like, you don’t want to see it again. You just want to finish the thing.
Ben Roberts: That’s the thing. I have actually genuinely really enjoyed the writing process. I love the topic, I love what I’m trying to convey. There is this bit of apprehension, have I conveyed it in the right way that other people are going to like and enjoy, and understand? But I’ve actually generally enjoyed the writing process overall. But it was just time consuming. ‘Cause I did stretch myself quite thin. I did push myself to write a lot of content in not a lot of time.
Tim Lewis: Yeah.
Ben Roberts: Obviously doing everything else it was quite tiresome, and my partner noticed that I was becoming a bit more forgetful and other things, and forgetting things that I wouldn’t normally forget. But for the sake of it being a short-term project actually, ’cause really writing pretty much the entire book in six weeks, actually is quite short term compared to potentially the long term gains, and the benefits and advantages it will bring.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, when I did … I’ve done NaNoWriMo, which is writing 50,000 words in a month. I’ve done that a couple of times. But I wasn’t working full time at the time I did that, and I know that people who I’ve done NaNoWriMo struggle with doing 50,000 in a month. That’s fiction as well, which in some ways can be quicker to write. So, yeah. You’re right. Especially with … it’s not just you’ve got a nine to five job where you’re working in a factory or something, you’ve got outside time commitments as well, you do lots of interviews in the evenings, you do hockey stuff, and you’ve got a cat and a girlfriend.
Tim Lewis: So, it’s an achievement what you’ve done anyway. So basically your solution for your timing problem was to basically get up early and work late on it, is that a basic summary?
Ben Roberts: Yeah, mostly work early. One of the things I did start doing is, I did half four til about seven o’clock at my desk. Then I took about half an hour off, then I went down to Costa, and I did a load of writing then. So probably I took a couple of half days off work. Then did a bit there, where a change of environment, a little bit change of scene. That helps a lot actually, because when I sat in the same room with the same view, I couldn’t really focus, it got quite tedious.
Ben Roberts: Whereas actually going out I found that I was a lot less distracted, and actually worked a lot better there. So that was one of the key things that I learned since our last episode. ‘Cause as I said, when we talked about our last episode I was like, “I’m actually struggling to write sometimes. I’m getting up early and I know it’s the best time for me, but I can’t find the right place or place.”
Ben Roberts: It was actually ’cause I was spending too long in the same place. So it was actually nice to mix things up. So some things I did it just at my main desk. Sometimes I sat at my dining room desk. Other days I sat at Costa. It was nice actually to have a blend of the three. I also sat in the clubhouse of the hockey club as well, to mix things up a little. Just so actually it was just a bit of a different look and feel. So if I looked up, it wasn’t like I was starting at the same wall again.
Tim Lewis: I know. There’s a lot of people who give advice who works for them in terms of writing. But ultimately it’s finding out what works for you. It’s like when I’ve written … I didn’t do this for my latest book, because I didn’t have much writing in it, it was mainly transcription. But on the previous books, sometimes I’ve done 20 minutes, and then I’ve had my iPad with some episode of some sci-fi thing, and I’ve watched 10 minutes of that, and then I would come back to write another 20 minutes.
Tim Lewis: I’m sure that everybody would say that’s a terrible idea to do, but I found it worked quite well for me. So you’re right, you have to change location, and that’s what you need to do when you’re writing a book.
Ben Roberts: I tried doing that. I used to love the idea of actually putting on a bit of an episode, a film or something in the background for 10, 15 minutes. But the problem is, I am very tunnel vision. So once I start something, I will just not do 10 minutes of it. ‘Cause I’ve tried that all my life, and still I’m sort of adamant sometimes that I can do. I did it sometimes with this book. I’m like, “Oh, just put on an episode of something or other in the background.”
Ben Roberts: Then I’ve actually watched a whole episode, later it’s like, “Damn, that was 50 minutes I’ve now just really wasted when I could’ve …”
Tim Lewis: Yeah.
Ben Roberts: So that’s my … once I start, even if it’s something that I’m actually not overly interested in, I’ll still spend more time. So I tried to cut that down as much as possible, and actually trying to mix up some of the types of music I listen to as well. ‘Cause I do listen, work really well to musical scores. To classical stuff, so there’s a woman called Lindsay Stirling who basically does all this electric violin stuff, and it’s awesome, it’s really cool.
Ben Roberts: But I found again that over time I start becoming sort of immune to it. It wasn’t actually helping me concentrate. So I mixed up then, I started to listening to some punk rock stuff. Some stuff from my childhood, that actually helped me through a little bit, and then I could go back to … so that gee-d me up a little bit, kept me bouncing a little bit. Then I went back to some of the classical stuff, and I actually found that again, just mixing things up. Doing the same thing every day wasn’t constructive for me, and that was something I could only learn by doing.
Ben Roberts: Because people do say, “Look, get yourself to the same space every day, that’s your workspace. Dress in the same way, do the things at the time, because that’s your work time.” I tried that, that wasn’t for me. I could see exactly how it would work for some people. But I think you just have to find your own path. If I did a book a second time, I probably could write the same amount of words, again probably it would take a week or two off that time, just because of the experience that I’ve now had.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. I think it is knowing what to do. Okay. So let’s talk about what else you’ve got going. Has the book got a title yet? I think it’s always had a title, but have you got a final title for what the books going to be called?
Ben Roberts: I’m still looking at Marketing Buzzwords to Marketing Authority. I have had one bit of feedback that says potentially it’s too long, and maybe slightly too focused on marketing. But I haven’t been able to rack my brain enough, or have any suggestions, or any particularly better. So yeah, that’s a thought. I like the title, I’m not like, oh my god it’s the best title I’ve ever seen in my life. So I’m not opposed to maybe adjusting it.
Ben Roberts: And I do think I’m at the stage where if I adjust it, it wouldn’t matter too much. But I don’t know. I’m open to be swayed if a better offer comes along.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. I’m terrible with titles for books. I ended up just calling my book a title which was exactly the Ronseal, exactly what it says on the tin kind of thing. So there is some … maybe just have Marketing Buzzwords is the … check that there isn’t already a book called Marketing Buzzwords, there might be.
Ben Roberts: Yeah, the thing, I did think about that. But the problem is, people don’t want to talk about marketing buzzwords. So people want to ignore them. So if I just call it something that people don’t immediately, “Oh, buzzwords, I don’t like buzzwords.” That’s obviously what I hear peoples reaction is. So I wanted a person that said, “Actually look, we’re not just talking about buzzwords, we’re actually going to turn them into something.” I was like, “Okay, so I’m turning marketing buzzwords into what? Okay.”
Ben Roberts: And it’s actually how you can become an authority by using the power of buzzwords, ’cause it lends itself into personal branding and business branding. It’s what, marketing buzzwords who brand, to positive brand. I racked my brain and I was like, okay. This sums up what the book does. But maybe there is a more snappy or cool way of doing it. But I do like, because it does summarise what people will get from the book. Maybe there are too many marketing’s in there, but again, yeah. That’s why I’m not completely closed to the idea, and I will listen to offers, because it sounds like it’s purely marketing based, when it’s actually not always. So it could do buzzword to authority, but that doesn’t have the same I don’t think to it.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. Well one thing to keep in mind, is that you’ve already got your marketing buzzwords podcast. And there will be people who are searching for that, and then discover the book if it’s got the same name in it. It’s like, “Ooh, it’s by the same guy.” So there is certainly an advantage to having marketing buzzwords somewhere in the title, if only for brand recognition as much as anything.
Ben Roberts: Exactly. Talking about personal brand, it’s keeping things reasonably consistent. So people know that actually, “Look, it’s the marketing buzzword guy,” Or, “The guy who talks about marketing buzzwords,” because that consistency does stand for a lot. Again, I talk about a lot of this stuff in the book. So I’m not going to give it all away just yet, Tim. Not just yet.
Tim Lewis: Have you thought about cover design or anything like that?
Ben Roberts: Yes. So I’m part of a network for young entrepreneurs, it’s like a networking group called YENA, based out of Bristol in the UK. I like keeping things within communities, and I put on there to sort of see … Because a lot of these people are startups, and I guess my demographic. So I asked a few people on there, if they knew anyone, or could do it themselves. I got a load of quotes back, and some ideas.
Ben Roberts: One girl blew my mind with what she took from my summary, ’cause I sent them all a summary. She came back with really cool titles, covers that I could almost use without any edits. But whether we can go back and refine it and make it awesome. So yeah, she’s going to be doing all the external artwork, which is really cool.
Tim Lewis: Has she done book covers before, or is she just a general designer?
Ben Roberts: She hasn’t done it, but part of the thing that blew me away. She hadn’t done book covers before, but the amount of time and details she put into this proposal, looking at different sizing, different options, and again, that attention detail means a huge amount to me. If someone wants to put that much detail, effort into a proposal that they might not win, versus some of the other proposals I had in.
Ben Roberts: So she wasn’t the cheapest one, she wasn’t the most expensive which was already a win in my books. But then the amount of detail she put in, I was like, if she could put that much into a proposal where she’s not guaranteed the money, imagine how much effort she’s going to put in when she actually knows that she can get paid for the quality of delivery.
Tim Lewis: Well, I mean everybody needs to be, the first time they do something at some point.
Ben Roberts: Exactly. That’s why I love doing the entrepreneur startup scene, because there are some great undiscovered talent. Yes, it’s cheaper of course, because you have that less experience. But actually, it doesn’t mean the ideas are any less valuable, and the potential isn’t there. So I’m doing this for the first time, so for me, spending more probably on a cover design for somebody who’s done a couple more years of experience, more than it would actually cost me to write the book, probably isn’t the wisest thing I would’ve ever done.
Tim Lewis: Okay. So, the next question I suppose I should ask, so you’re getting the book edited, which is always good. You’re getting the cover sorted. I suppose the next question is about, given that you’re writing a book about marketing, even though it’s not totally about marketing, how are you intending to do the marketing plan for your book?
Ben Roberts: Yes, good question. This is something that I now, this is the time now I’m starting to think about this. So I plan on setting myself up with potentially going to a couple of conferences. So in early new year. Trying to find myself some more speaking opportunities. So with the potential that a couple are coming up around the time, or not long after book launch.
Ben Roberts: So it’s going through some of those. I plan on working with the people who I featured as case studies in the book, get reviews off them. Get some video testimonials, video promotions with them, involved. So I’m going to try and go to as many conferences as possible, where I know they are going to be attending, so I can physically give them a copy of the book myself, and get a video review.
Ben Roberts: I plan on the next couple of weeks reaching out to my wider network to find podcasts to go on, that people would be interested in hear about what the book is, and where they can find a copy. So pounding big podcast outreach, and sort of live videos. So yeah, I feel like February, March, is going to be a big time in terms of speaking, videos, getting my name out there a little bit. I plan to try and use a lot of the networks that I’ve built up over here.
Ben Roberts: So that’s a vague plan, I plan on sort of writing it down, and getting it all finalised by the end of November, ’cause that will give me then three months until the book launch, or so, to sort of get everything actioned, and put a proper plan of action into place.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, there’s loads of really good ideas, some of which I wish I had put into action with my book. One thing I did notice with my book, which was very contributor based, what you might want to consider, I don’t know how many people have put contributions in your book, who you can tap up … And how many people are in your wider network, but I suspect you might want to look at setting up an email list for both people who are in your book to be able to send there followers to you potentially. Also to keep people who are in your wider network informed.
Tim Lewis: So the issue I had was, I had loads of people who were very good on social media. But they all kind of like pushed the book at various different times, and the way that Amazon works certainly in terms of it’s charts, is that it’s about spikes of sales.
Ben Roberts: Yeah.
Tim Lewis: Not necessarily on one day, I think you have to have it over three or four days ideally. But I was getting like, some people were doing it, tweeting about it a week later. I was like, “No, I wanted you to do this last week.”
Ben Roberts: Yeah, one of the things I plan on doing with that, is a thunderclap campaign, just a final bam.
Tim Lewis: Yeah.
Ben Roberts: That was something, just so at least everything went out within a very timely manner. Again, that was one of the idea, it’s just little things like that that I’ve seen other people do well, and do poorly. I plan on creating one of those launch teams.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. My experience … I’ve never done a thunderclap, but everybody I’ve heard try to do one for a book doesn’t seem to have had any success with it, mainly because it’s generally based on Twitter, and you can almost end up with this echo chamber where on Twitter, you see 50 tweets all in a row from people pushing your book on your feed. That can kind of backfire. So that was why I was suggesting, if you’ve got an email list that you’ve built up over these three months, do the thunderclap stuff as well, because it’s not going to necessarily do you any damage. But if you’re in control of access to the people who are interested in your book, then I think that might help.
Ben Roberts: Oh, definitely. I think that’s a really neat suggestion, yeah I think that’s definitely something I’m going to have to add in as well. I’m really lucky that Chris Strub is doing the foreword to my book, and he’s obviously released a book himself, and he’s doing amazing things in the sphere himself. So having someone like that, who’s willing to put the time and effort to come on board with me, and the connections that he can potentially bring as well, for me all those avenues all come together.
Ben Roberts: I’m hoping that it’ll be a really successful launch. Really, I’ve got a little bit of ground to make up, because obviously I’ve done the pre-order campaign, which means actually I’ve sucked potentially some of the initial Amazon buyers away. So I almost have to make sure that actually there’s some huge advantage to crowdfunding, but there’s also some big drawbacks. So I need to be able to-
Tim Lewis: It’s a disadvantage that I tell everybody when the like, “Ooh, let’s just do crowdfunding.” Then it’s like, “Well yes, but the trouble with that is that you can end up killing sales on the actual release days on Amazon.” Then you don’t get into the charts, and you can’t feature.
Ben Roberts: Yeah, exactly.
Tim Lewis: But my own experience, the non-fiction charts aren’t that difficult to chart in. So it’s just a case of getting the sales at the the right times really.
Ben Roberts: Yeah. Exactly. That was one of the conscious things I thought about when I talked about the crowdfunding campaign. But for me because I’ve not long bought a house, and all my savings pretty much, a lot of my money went into buying the house and stuff, so I really want to get this done. I felt it was the right time, if I didn’t do it now, I wouldn’t do it for years.
Ben Roberts: So it was a case of, look, I needed that actually almost to just help create the book. So the crowdfunding funds essentially have helped pay for a good copy editor, which I could’ve not have afforded before, and allowed me to create and pay for the cover design as well, which I couldn’t have afforded before, which is immeasurable because otherwise I just wouldn’t have been able to get the book down. So that’s part of the reason why I went down the crowdfunding campaign.
Ben Roberts: For me as well, because again, as a first time author, I really wanted to validate my idea, and see what support would be out there. It blew me, only doing a crowdfunding campaign for a month. If I’d done the crowdfunding campaign for more, which I was tempted to do, I could’ve earned a lot more and paid for everything. But I also wanted to keep some of that again, not suck all the orders away from the initial Amazon boom so to speak.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. Something else. There were a couple of other things you need to give some thought one. One which I’m terrible for giving thought to, but I might have a re look at, which is the book description in Amazon, and these other stores, because that makes a difference in terms of, it’s copywriting basically. So you need to be able to kind of sell the book and book description.
Tim Lewis: The other is the keywords and categories. So the categories especially the book’s going to go in. Now I actually tapped up somebody who runs this company called K-Lytics, to come up a report for me of the best keywords and categories to put my book in. Now you don’t necessarily need to go down the way of actually buying keyword reports, or using some sort of keyword, there’s another tool called Kindle Spy, I think does this kind of stuff.
Tim Lewis: But what I would suggest is going onto the ebook stores on Amazon, and just looking to see what kind of categories are available. The easiest way is just to look at the highest book in the charts, and what position it is in the whole Kindle store. Then like number 10 in the charts, ’cause that’ll give you some idea about how competitive it is, that chart. It’s kind of good to have … and you can put your book in multiple categories.
Tim Lewis: But you almost want a really easy category to get in one chart, and then ideally into the next one and the next one.
Ben Roberts: Like Wichita travel.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. Well, it wasn’t Wichita, it’s Kansas Travel. Yeah, the idea of then getting sales, I mean, I got into the top 10 of the UK social media … or one of the. There’s about five social media categories in Kindle, which is ridiculous. But I got to about number six in the UK social media category. I think it was up to … I was number one in some sort of presentation and sales category, which I didn’t even remember asking to put into in the same … there’s a new release category as well, in the first month of a book’s sale.
Tim Lewis: So there’s a new release chart. So there’s several places you can’t chart, but it would be worth just spending an afternoon, or using one of these tools and just finding out what categories potentially can I put my book into. Rather than just, what I did in my first couple of books is, you get the Kindle interface, and then you’re like, “Oh, I don’t know. I’ll just put any old rubbish in this field.”
Tim Lewis: It’s worth spending the time beforehand to think about these things, so that the categories and the book description.
Ben Roberts: Yeah, no. I think book description is something I’ve always thought about. The categories, I knew it was somewhat important, I know I need to find some sort of niche area. Cat, stay away from the microphone, stop purring into it. He’s so needy today. I know some of the keywords, I’m quite fluent in keyword analysis and stuff like that. It’s trying to work some of those key areas. And I think as well that I will be … I haven’t done it yet, but I know it’s going to be something important, because I think if you can get again a bestseller in any … become an Amazon bestseller, it gives that little bit of kudos doesn’t it, it is a niche category.
Tim Lewis: I know, it’s ridiculous. I could say I’m a number one bestseller, but just hope people won’t ask what category.
Ben Roberts: I hope every book is a bestseller, isn’t it?
Tim Lewis: Well a lot of it was, because there was one Udemy video I saw from this woman, I think it was a woman, years ago. I don’t think they’re still doing it, but they were saying, “Oh, I’ll teach how to … and I’m a number one Amazon bestseller.” I looked up what category it was in, it was like piano tuning, or something along those lines. I was like, this is just like you can sell two books and you’ll be a number one Amazon bestseller.
Ben Roberts: Well actually, I definitely want to be an Amazon bestseller for marketing buzzwords. If I’m not, I’m going to really, really disappointed.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, just email them and say, “Can you add a category just for my book?”
Ben Roberts: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That would be nice, wouldn’t it? That would be great customer service.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. So, we got most of it. It’s funny, I did actually, my show that’s going out tomorrow, this is inter temporal for the listeners, but the actual podcast is going out tomorrow, ’cause I was away last week. I couldn’t get you in just before tomorrow’s show. But I did the show with Holly Chessman. She’s in the position where she’s done basically the whole book, but she didn’t know about the last steps. So there’s a lot of … but I thought I would be like, 10 minutes just say, go to KDP. It was about 45 minutes I ended up talking to her about the very last steps, about how do you go onto KDP, and how do you do this?
Tim Lewis: So there is a lot that you need to do in February time, or whenever you actually get round to actually the final pressing, the big button and releasing your book into the world.
Ben Roberts: Yes, and that’s the thing. as I said, I’ve slain the first big beast. But I know there a couple of other boss levels still to come before I complete the game.
Tim Lewis: Yeah.
Ben Roberts: In a weird analogy like that.
Tim Lewis: Okay. Well I know you’ve got another interview after this in your great campaign of being the pre-interview man, and you’ve been hyper-successful. In terms of the schedule, I think the next show I’ll have with you is sometime in January. So you should be on the final stretch. But on the other hand you should also have enough … because you’re planning to go live on my birthday aren’t you, February the 18th, I think is what-
Ben Roberts: Yeah, I think that was what we agreed for the ebook deal. I thought you were going to hold me to that, so I feel like I’ve got no choice, Tim. But I think we said, yeah, the ebook then. Then potentially slightly later for paperback, a week or so later I think they said.
Tim Lewis: Well, I mean that’s what I did, I’ve done that for every book. To be fair, if you got the right software, it’s not actually that terribly difficult to do them both at the same time. But maybe that’s something we can talk about in January time.
Ben Roberts: Yeah, definitely. I don’t want to overstretch myself just yet.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, so good luck with the edits, and I shall talk to you again in January.
Ben Roberts: Thank you very much Tim, it’s an absolute pleasure to be on your podcast.