Tim Lewis: In this episode, I talk to Claire Josa, who is the author of Dare To Dream Bigger, and an expert on overcoming limiting beliefs. The irony is that she actually tells quite often the story about her own failures in feeling like an imposter within the book. Actually, I think a lot of the things that it discusses are quite profound in terms of the whole mental side of writing and doing other things.
I think this actually a very interesting interview for psychological perspective. You might be one of those happy individuals who never suffers from writer’s block, never feels like an imposter, and is happily getting on with their life. In which case, you might not find this interview that interesting.
But, for the rest of us, I think you’ll find it quite useful. Now, over to the interview.
Hello, Claire, welcome to the show.
Clare Josa: Hello, Tim, it’s great to be here.
What is Imposter Syndrome
Tim Lewis: Okay. The first question I suppose we should ask, is what exactly is Imposter Syndrome?
Clare Josa: Imposter Syndrome, we might call it feeling like a fraud, or that sense of not really being a grownup and not belonging. That fear that we’re going to get called out as not really being the VIP candidate that we seem to be putting ourselves up to being.
It’s the reason why so many of us have five unfinished novels on our hard drives. Well, “Who would want to read my book?” And, “Who am I to write about this, to publish this? Who on earth would think I’m good enough?” It’s that fear of rejection, that fear of criticism that gets in the way of us stretching our comfort zone. Because, I don’t know about you, Tim, but I know every time I publish a book, when I send that manuscript off, it feels like I’ve just been summoned to the headmaster’s office, and I’m standing outside, and my palms are sweating, and I don’t know if I’m about to get absolutely lynched, or praised, yeah?
There’s something so final about sending off a book, rather than writing a blog post. So, Imposter Syndrome is what gets in the way of that. So many of the biggest name authors in the world have suffered from it. Most of us don’t talk about it, and for me I see it as the biggest barrier to self-publishing the book.
Tim Lewis: That’s right. I know you have a personal story about that yourself, which is why it’s a topic that’s close to your heart. Could you maybe go through that a little bit?
Clare Josa: I can indeed.
Imposter Syndrome is a master of disguise. You don’t just suddenly sit there at nine o’clock on a Tuesday and go, “Oh yeah, I’ve got Imposter Syndrome. Cool, I’ll go deal with that.”
It creeps up on you. It’s those secret 3:00 AM doubts, when you’re lying awake in bed going, “Oh, I can’t publish a book with that cover, or that title,” or, “What if somebody doesn’t like this character?” Or, if it’s nonfiction, “What if somebody objects to that bit I’ve written?” And the way it comes out for instance, things like procrastinating. Being too busy to finish the book, yeah? Or, perfectionism. Having to get every word to count.
These excuses, you know, “I can’t finish the book, because I can’t publish it, because I’m too busy,” or, “It’s not the right time,” or “Somebody else has just written a book on it.” I notice it comes out in utterly crazy behaviour.
What happened to me, my last book is called Dare to Dream Bigger. It was the night before the manuscript was due to go to the printer, to Clays, and I was getting it printed as a beautiful hard back, with a foil-embossed cover. It was the combination of 15 years’ work, of mentoring passionate world changes, so my conscious brain knew, “Hey, I know my stuff. I must talk to people about their confidence, about how to handle Imposter Syndrome, how to make a bigger difference in the world by getting out of their own way.
I listened to those 3:00 AM doubts. “Who am I to publish this book? What if it isn’t the definitive guide ever to getting out of your own way? What if it’s not good enough? What if people hate it?” And I pressed the delete key. I deleted the entire manuscript from my hard drive the night before it was due to go to the printer. Because I listened to those doubts, and listening to those doubts made me do something that crazy.
I had the book read by my R&D team, which have 30 people in it who had given me feedback. I’d spent 15 years studying and teaching this stuff, but still I decided I wasn’t good enough. That was a bit of a freak out moment, that 3:00 AM doubt. That deleting book.
I did get it back off my backup drive the next day, once I calmed myself down. But, you know, I walk my talk. I had to apply the practises I teach, to get past the Imposter Syndrome. It’s that kind of crazy thing it makes us do, it helps us to get in our own way. It means we publish a book, maybe we then back off on the marketing, the P.R., yeah? It hurdles to trip us up. That inside stuff. It goes deeper in attitude and mindset, and it really gets to the core of who am I to do this? Does that make sense, Tim?
Tim Lewis: Yeah. No, it makes sense from my point of view, as well. More the releasing the book, and then not really doing any marketing for it. For my Imposter Syndrome.
Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
I suppose the next question that everybody’d be asking, is, How can an author overcome this kind of Imposter Syndrome if affects them?
Clare Josa: Well, the thing I’ve found over the years, is this is actually bigger for us as self-published authors, than it is if you have a publishing contract. Because when you’re self published, you’re the only one that decides if your book is good enough.
When you’re with a publishing house, somebody’s paid you either advance, or promise on sales. Somebody’s helping you with editing. Somebody’s chasing you, holding you accountable. Somebody’s giving you feedback, and hopefully massaging the ego as well as giving you the constructive criticism that you might need. You’ve got a support team around you, and you’ve got external deadlines.
All of that helps you to push your way through Imposter Syndrome. When you’re publishing your own book, there’s nobody there to do that for you, unless you’ve consciously set up that support team. You probably only have a deadline that’s in your own head. You may or may not have people viewing the book to give you the feedback. You may or not have paid an editor. You might have an editor who’s a little bit harsh, and that can make Imposter Syndrome worse, yeah? Or one that’s fostering your ego too much, meaning you don’t believe that they’re really helping you get the book to the quality it needs to be. And we don’t spot the warning signs.
The thing is, if you spot yourself at all having thoughts like, “Well who am I to publish this book? Is it ever going to be good enough? Or putting off the publishing deadline for excuses that maybe aren’t real, but we justify themselves, then that’s a warning sign that Imposter Syndrome is there. And you can’t fix it with Google. In the self-publishing world, most of the answers we need on how to do it are out there on Google now. But Imposter Syndrome is just something we’re not talking about.
You’ve got coaches out there saying, “Oh, just push your way through.” Or, “Just think different thoughts.” And, “Be positive,” and it doesn’t work, because Imposter Syndrome isn’t created at the thinking level.
You’ve got your thoughts, and fed by them are the beliefs, and that is fed by your sense of identity of who am I? So, to really deal with Imposter Syndrome you need to do the deep diving, but you can do stuff in the emergency situation. Like being aware of it. If you catch yourself telling yourself a story about how you’re not good enough, or the book won’t be loved. Is that really true? Or am I just running Imposter Syndrome? Is this just that I’m stretching the comfort zone and I’m feeling a bit scared?
As soon as you start to acknowledge it’s there, you can let go of the drama. The stories we tell ourselves. You can start to say, “Well, okay, how do I want to feel about this book instead?” And focus on that. “Right, how could I get something that would support me, so I can feel more confident about the book? Do I need to get feedback? Do I need to break this process down into smaller chunks? Do I need to get somebody to help me with accountability? Do I need to get an editor in?”
“How can I reassure myself that I know what I’m doing, that this book is going to be great, and that my dream audience is going to love reading it?” When you start focusing on that, just shifting the focus, there’s a bit of your brain called the reticular activating system. It processes our sensory input from the world, so it knows right now how the left toe, the little toe on the left foot is feeling, for example. The stuff that would overwhelm us gets filtered through that. What governs what gets through those filters, is what we believe about the world. Limiting and empowering beliefs.
If we believe, “Okay, my writing is rubbish. Nobody wants to read my books.” Somebody could give you a 5-star review, and you think, “Ugh, it’s just the only one, that was a fluke.” And you get a one-start review, and that becomes the gospel truth. When you shoot that around and say, “Okay, how do I want to feel instead?” And focus on looking for evidence to support that feeling, you open up the possibility to step free completely from Imposter Syndrome.
You can hear it in your head. “You know, I can’t lose because … ” Anything that’s got a because before it is likely to be a limiting belief, an excuse, or a block when it comes to writing our books. When we can spot those excuses, you can look at something psychologists call secondary gain, which is, “What is the crazy behaviour doing to me?” So, if we take my example, deleting Dare to Dream Bigger, deleting that file meant I didn’t have to stand up and be counted for what I believe in. And what I believe in, is that all of us are here to make a difference in the world, and if we get out of our own way so we can make a bigger difference and help more people, it’s an inside job, and outside strategies and cheat sheets and swipe files are not enough.
By deleting the book, what I gained from that was not having to stand up and be counted. I gained not risking being criticised. I gained not risking people throwing flack at me. There’s always something we gain from staying stuck, dreaming big but playing small.
When you can unravel, what is this crazy behaviour doing for me? What is this repeated drama story doing for me? And you can meet that need in a more healthy way, then the need for that story disappears. The need for that drama disappears. The fear melts away. You’re no longer setting up an inner conflict by saying, “I’m terrified about publishing the book, but I’m going to do it anyway.”
When you can start taming that self-talk, and breaking things down into smaller steps, and getting the support that you need, you can set yourself free to be more creative. You can really enjoy the process of creating your book, and feel the fear for what it is. It’s just a self-preservation instinct that maybe has gone out of place, because frankly publishing books is rarely, not always but rarely as dangerous as running from a sabretooth tiger.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, I’m not old enough to remember running from a sabretooth tiger, so I’ll take your word for it.
Anyway, we’ve talked a bit about limiting beliefs. What are the most common kind of limiting beliefs that people have?
Clare Josa: When it comes to writing books, it’s … There’s two types of beliefs. The love-based beliefs, and the fear-based beliefs. And it’s all the fear-based. It’s the I’m not good enough, fear of rejection, fear of criticism, the terror of reviews, fear of failure, and sometimes even fear of success. Fear of letting our light shine as Marianne Williamson said. The fear of success can actually very deeply hidden. Sometimes if I’m successful, then people are going to look to me to have opinions, or they’re going to see me as an expert, who am I to be an expert? Sometimes it might be overwhelm if I’m successful. How would I handle selling ten times as many books at a week’s notice? Can I do that? Do I have the systems in place?
Sometimes it’s because we’re writing something that actually isn’t really in alignment with who we really are, and what are next message is, yeah? Sometimes we get stuck writing in the past, particularly in nonfiction. You might have moved on, but you feel that your audience still wants the old message. Or maybe, if you’re writing series of novels, you might actually have enough of those characters. You might want something new, and you’re kind of feeling stuck, because your readers want you to keep going.
All of these reasons that are fear-based reasons, and the really brilliant thing I discovered about 15 years ago, is that they’re just neurological pathways in the brain. Our beliefs are not real. They’re neuro pathways, and you can change them.
Tim Lewis: Okay. I’ve heard about, and I’ve read a few books in the past, about NLP, or neuro-linguistic programming. What is NLP, and how can it help people with overcoming their limiting beliefs?
Using Neuro-Linguistic Programming
Clare Josa: NLP is one of the tools that I’ve used for a decade and a half now. I’m an NLP trainer, have been from 2003, and I see it as using the power of your brain. It’s like this gorgeous blend of practical psychology and neuroscience.
So, when you read stuff in psychology, or you read stuff that neuroscientists are discovering, NLP is like the “So, what? What can I do with that?” One of the things it helps you to do, is to rewire those neuro pathways in the brain.
The neuro pathways are when the synapses in your brain, they kind of fire off and talk to each other, having little conversations. And it’s as though you were walking through a field full of hay. If you walk through that field once, here we’ve got our Prime Minister running through the fields, and she’s been a naughty child. If you run through that field once, you’ll bend over a few stalks of wheat or hay, but within a few days, nobody will be able to see that you were there unless you were particularly heavy-footed. But if you run that same path over and over again, eventually the grass will lie down, the roots will die, there’ll be mud there, and that path will be there for years and years to come. Neuro pathways in your brain are exactly the same.
For example, when you’re learning to ride a bike. The reason it takes us practise, is because we need to fire up all these connections in the brain that says, “First I do this, then I do this.” And it’s that difficult process that becomes autopilot. Once we can do it in an autopilot way, we’ve got those neuro pathways nicely ingrained. It’s like the mud is showing us the path in the field.
But we can always learn something new, and I love the cognitive side of NLP because it helps you to think, to become aware of the thought processes you’re running. That are like these motorways going through a field, and choose whether that’s what you want to keep thinking. Whether those are the thoughts that you still want to have, or whether you’d like to think something different instead.
With a limiting belief, you can actually reprogram that particular activating system in your brain, the RAS, to notice different evidence by changing the beliefs. You can actually change the neurology in your brain, that made you much less likely to go into those habits and feeding the pain stories of, “I’m not good enough and nobody will love my book, and why am I even writing it?”
Use your really practical tools. The other thing I love about it, looking at psychology and neuroscience, if we hit Imposter Syndrome, feeling like a fraud, that inner critic on the shoulder, it actually makes writing much harder, because it fires off the sympathetic nervous system. This is something I teach. I was a yoga and meditation teacher, so I teach this with my meditation and mindfulness students. When you’re stressed, you fire up the sympathetic nervous system, which is the fight-flight-freeze part. That diverts blood flow in your brain to the primal part.
The amygdala, the base of the brain, the reptilian brain, and we’re back to the saber-tooth tigers. That’s the bit that’s responsible for your survival, and it makes fear-based decisions so that you can stay alive. What’s happening is so many of us with our inner critics going crazy, and already, we’re feeling stressed and pushing ourselves on adrenaline.
We’re diverting the blood flow to the amygdala multiple times a day. When you do, that bit of your brain is responsible for short-term decision-making only. It just wants to keep itself. It wants to keep you alive, but it triggers off the same fears, as though that terrible thing were really happen.
It diverts the blood flow from the bits of the brain it created. It makes it hard, that prefrontal cortex, and the link between the left- and the right-hand side of the brain gives you this wonderful creative storytelling. It’s really hard to access that when you’re stuck in the amygdala.
When you can learn to start managing your thoughts to get grounded, to calm your nervous system with some simple, mindful breathing for example, you get the nervous system back in balance, the parasympathetic nervous system which is your relaxation response, kicks back in so you can be relaxed but alert. And your brain has blood flow exactly where it needs it, for you to write the brilliant next bit of your book.
I love to use NLP in combination with everything else I can find, including demystified ancient wisdom and for me, it helps people to create breakthroughs when they’re feeling stuck.
Tim Lewis: Okay. I’m going to ask you to give us some little bits of evidence of the things that you actually in your books, that people don’t necessarily have to take your word for it.
What kind of exercises can an author do to help them become more confident, and maybe overcome some of these limiting beliefs?
Clare Josa: For me, the absolute first thing is to get that nervous system back in balance. If you’re stuck in your story head, and there is thoughts going around, beating yourself up, you are going to find it very hard to be create. So many voices stuck in our heads. Simply taking a really deep breath into your belly, and breathing out through the soles of your feet with an, “Ahhh.” Kind of in, … doing that three or four times starts to rebalance the nervous system. It gets you grounded, and it gives you back your perspective.
All of those things mean that the stress hormones that were firing the body slow down. It means the self talk about not being good enough calms down. So, simply getting grounded can be enough to give you perspective. Is this story I’m telling myself really true? Is that chapter I wrote yesterday really worthy of deletion? Or do I just need to get somebody else’s feedback on where it’s stuck, so I can refine it? It helps you to get pragmatic, and it helps you to feel calmer.
There’s another technique I teach, called the ABC, and to press pause on negative thinking, which can help you to then choose to step into that confident version of you. So, ABC is Accept, Breathe, Choose. Take a thought that’s been driving you crazy. You’ve been up at 3:00 AM, telling yourself all the reasons why no one will want to read your book. Accept those thoughts are there. Yeah, there’s no need to beat yourself up. Carl Jung says, “What you resist, persists.” And he’s so right. If we try and push those thoughts away, and try and get rid of negative thinking, and we’re giving it all of our power and attention. And it triggers off all of those hormones and reactions in the body. That get the stress hormones going, and the fight-or-flight, turns us back to the amygdala.
Accepting those thoughts happened, taking that deep grounding breath into the belly, out through the feet, and then choose the thought that makes you feel better. Sometimes when I’m pushing myself outside a comfort zone, I might need to do that 50 times a day. But once I’m through the comfort zone, pretty much not at all. But accept, breathe, choose is one of the simplest techniques you can use to press pause on thoughts that are making you feel bad, that are knocking your confidence.
I’ve got a magic question I use, as well. If I find that I’m lacking confidence, or I’m at risk of Imposter Syndrome, what do I want instead? Okay? Turn that focus around. That’s my magic question. What do I want instead? Okay, I’m feeling like a fraud, who is ever going to want to read a novel that I would write?
I could never tell a story that would be good enough for selling. What do I want instead? Well, I want to be a successful author with people who love my books. Great. What steps do I need to take to allow that to happen? What beliefs do I need to let go of, to allow that to happen, yeah? You turn the fear into a focus on what you can do to get through that, and get the outcome that you want instead.
I’ve actually got a story I would love to share if it’s okay with you, about something that happened in July, on exactly this topic.
That English Teacher telling you that you can’t write
Tim Lewis: Of course you can tell the story.
Clare Josa: At the age of about 12 to 13 I can’t remember quite when, I wrote a story for my English teacher, and I was really proud of it. You know what it’s like when you’re a kid, and you’re like, “Yeah, I like that story.” It was 500 words. I got it back and I got a B minus, which for me was not great. I was not impressed. I was a perfectionist, and I still run that streak now. The teacher wrote nothing on the essay but one word a the end, and that word destroyed my confidence through decades. It was the word contrived. It. So, my best story I ever wrote she wrote the word contrived. I never willingly wrote a story again. Yeah?
I didn’t realise, because I’ve been writing now for 17 years professionally. I didn’t realise the reason I was writing nonfiction books was because of this teacher. Because at that age I had handed her the power over my self-belief about writing novels. I wanted to be a novelist my whole life. My Granny was an author. I love stories. I love reading. I love writing. If you’d asked me at the age of six, “What would you like to be?” I would have said, “I want to be a writer.” Yeah? And I was letting this really hold me back. It came to a point early July this year where I realised you know what? I’m just actually going to have to do this. I’ve got to find a way.
One of the other techniques I use is EFT, Emotional Freedom Technique, or Tapping. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that, Tim. It’s where you tap on the meridian points on the body to clear out blocks.
Tim Lewis: No, I’m willing to listen to any kind of therapy or thing that might help people.
Clare Josa: Where I find, I’m a master practitioner of EFT. Where I find it incredibly useful is if I’ve got limiting belief that gets stuck, yeah? One I can’t clear cognitively because that secondary gain, what it’s doing to me, is too deep.
I do this tapping, on letting go, I started on just tapping on the word contrived, and then it moved to different things, as you go to the layers that have kind of clung to that over the years. I didn’t think much of it, so I just did tapping for about 20 minutes on it, and within a week I had drafted a series of five novels. That was July, and yesterday morning I finished the first novel completely, 90,000 words, it’s off to the editor now. The second novel has already got 75,000 words written.
That was from one morning of tapping, releasing that limiting belief. I’ve had a couple of people reading the novel, and actually, it’s not contrived. It’s a right-ripping yarn, so it proved to me what you can do when you acknowledge and accept your fears, and when you take action to genuinely let them go at the deepest level and get the support that you need and you break it down into baby steps.
Tim Lewis: First of all, congratulations on having started writing the fiction books. I know how difficult it is to actually write fiction. The other thing I suppose I would say, is like, it’s always very easy in life to take the opinions of others when … Take your English teacher, may have … Her husband might have left her the day before she wrote it, or she could have just been a … Or, she just could have been an idiot and there are quite a lot of English teachers who are generally idiots, unfortunately.
So yeah, it’s always so interesting how we give so much power to other people when we don’t really necessarily need to, because we see them, especially when we’re younger, we see these people as authority figures. They don’t necessarily know that much, really, at the end of the day.
Reviews and coping with Criticism
Clare Josa: I’m totally with you, and it’s funny she actually turned out … She’s a lovely, lovely lady and I will write her one day about this and tell her how much she helped me. Because I was finally ready to write the novels. I was so hungry, that block had to go this summer. There was no other option.
Seth Godin, his advice that I’ve absolutely loved, though I’ve not managed to apply it yet. Is he never reads any reviews. He doesn’t read his one star, he doesn’t read his five stars. To him, writing is a reward in and of itself. He doesn’t need the five star reviews to tell him his book was good or that it helped people, and I think, “You’re absolutely right. It’s about allowing ourselves to feel confident enough in who we are, that other people’s opinions no longer motivate our writing.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, the funny thing is I’ve had Jay Baer on the show, talking about reviews. He kind of talked from a customer support point of view, which is that you respond to every review. The trouble is though, I think if you are the same person who wrote the book, and you’re the same person who’s supposed to be doing this customer support thing, it’s actually … There is an argument for not reading reviews.
I think ideally, you want to get to the position where you can just accept it’s someone’s opinion, and they could be just having a bad day, or they could have a valid point. I suspect that’s probably more like a secondary activity, that it’s probably worth working on, after you’ve mastered the Zen of being able to get over these blocks.
Clare Josa: Absolutely, and I do think part of the support team that we need even as self-published authors, is somebody else to handle our emails and receive them, because having that space in between makes all the difference in your confidence. I know you and I first met through the EU VAT Action campaign I’ve been co-running Tim. One of the reasons the campaign was so hard for us despite what we’ve achieved was going public, being interviewed in the media and having to handle trolls. Because it was all around the Brexit time, the general election a couple of years ago. When we were interviewed in some of the tabloid newspapers, the comments that would go up on those interviews were really quite horrific.
So we had somebody in the team at any stage who hadn’t been any part of the interview, would take one for the team and read the comments to see if there was any feedback that was useful. The rest of us vowed to ourselves we would never read the comments on any article we were quoted in. It really worked.
Tim Lewis: Yeah. I think that’s an effective technique in general for … Almost find somebody else who can read all the abuse and tell them, “Is there anything useful in them, or is it just trolls?”
Clare Josa: Absolutely. Juliet McKenna, who I know you also know, thought the campaign. She co-led it with me. She sold over a million of her novels so far. She says that 99% of the time when she gets a bad review, it’s not because the book was bad. It’s because that particular person didn’t like the way the story went. That’s a very different thing.
Finding out about Clare and Bonus Offer
Tim Lewis: Yeah, exactly. Anyway, we’re just about around the normal time for an interview, so how can people find out about Clare Josa and the things that you do?
Clare Josa: Well, Dare to Dream Bigger is the inside work handbook for passionate world changes, so in it I take peoples through anything from better clarity about the difference you’re here to make, through to your confidence, your credibility, being seen as the go-to expert in your field or in your genre. Your connection with your audience, your dream team, and how to spark your creativity. How to get past things that writers block. How to keep going when you’re not in the mood, which I know can be a real challenge for us authors. And how to celebrate your successes, and use that to retrain your inner critic, to be your biggest cheerleader.
That is on Amazon, it’s, you can buy it direct from me, buy on my website, there’s links all over the place. You can get it from ordering from bookstores. Dare to Dream Bigger. And I’ve also got some resources for you listening today, over at my website, on special page just for Tim. Covering the two things we’ve looked at today.
You’ll find that at clarejosa.com/tim.
I’ve got some short videos there for you, to guide you through the techniques that we’ve done here on the podcast, because some of them you might be listening to us driving, for example, and I don’t want you closing your eyes and doing a little meditation.
Also, if your limiting beliefs are getting in the way of you writing the books you really, really want to write, or getting your next book published, then I have an online course for people on how to ditch limiting belief in under five minutes. It teaches you the strategies that I use with my mentoring clients and with myself when Imposter Syndrome, feeling like a fraud, limiting beliefs rear their ugly head and threaten to get in the way of what you’re dreaming of doing.
You can find information about that, and I’ve got some lovely bonuses just for Tim. Including meditations I’ve recorded just for this podcast at players.com/tim. That meditation is about how to break through writer’s block, when it is a fear-based block. Yeah. Because sometimes creativity really gets stuck, and being scared is the quickest way to sabotage that creative writing process that we need to be able to access, to really let those words flow.
Tim Lewis: Yeah, well thank you for that. I presume when you say, “It’s just for Tim,” you mean it’s just for listeners of this show, right? Not just for me individually.
Clare Josa: It’s for listeners of the show, and it’s especially for this show. It’s not available anywhere else, because I feel so passionately that I’ve been really blessed in having the tools to get through writer’s block, and getting past Imposter Syndrome, and despite that it’s still sometimes come up and bitten me.
Free 5-day training from Clare Josa, Author of Dare To Dream Bigger:
I feel so passionately if you’ve got a book inside you that’s desperate to get out, anything I can do to help make that easy for you, so you love the process and your readers can feel your passion, then I’d love to be able to help you. That meditation, and that course are two of the ways I can help.
Tim Lewis: Okay, well thanks very much for being on the show today, Clare.
Clare Josa: Thank you so much for having me, Tim, and if people have got any questions, they can find me on social media. There’s only one of me. Clare Josa, I’d love to help.
Tim Lewis: Okay. Thanks a lot for being on the show.